"What I've enjoyed the most throughout the years is the freedom to suit myself in all my doings".
Only the musically illiterate are not familiar with the currently 58 year old Tony Joe White. His headstrong, seeming simple but ever so virtuous guitar playing has remained unique right from the start of his career, some forty years ago. His dark-brown, warm soul-full voice can be recognised amongst thousands. And even if you are not part of his world-wide crowd of fervent supporters, you will know at least some of his songs, compositions that became more famous than their creator. It was Elvis Presley who covered " Polk Salad Annie" and "I've got A Thing About You Baby". The famous "Rainy Night In Georgia has been covered hundreds of times, the best known being the version of Ray Charles and Randy Crawford. And towards a large audience we could refer to Tina Turner who recorded no less than four songs from White, amongst others the world-wide hit "Steamy Windows" where Tony Joe can be heard on his guitar. The list of artists who recorded songs of this maestro is endless: The Animals, Blue Blot, Joe Cocker, Joe Dassin, Paul Young, Johnny Halliday, Roy Orbison, Wilson Pickett, Dusty Springfield and Ami Stewart, but also blues-singers such as B.B. King, Billy Branch, Etta James, John Mayall, Roland and Aron Burton. And this is only a fraction…
Tony Joe sees himself as a lonely wolf, an alligator, a dark blues drenched anomalous thing in a musical world where artists are confined to small, neat boxes. The superstar from the boggy swamps in Louisiana will never fit into one of these boxes. As he explains himself: "I still haven't changed, I just play guitar and I don't care about anything else. And after all these years people still haven't figured out whether I'm white, black, country or rock".
His records went over the counter in manifold, but with the new CD "The Beginning" this is not yet the case. Only recently released it is already a collector's item. Tony Joe returned to his roots and recorded this CD at his own home, with only the sound of his voice, his guitar, mouth organ and tapping foot. Averse to the musical industry, call it a circus, he burned the sublime result to CD-ROM himself and for the moment you can only order a copy of this through his personal website www.tonyjoewhite.com. It is true to say that the music does indeed not differ from what Tony Joe already made forty years ago: sensitive, soulful songs about different personalities from the swamps, often drenched in blues, sometimes a little country or rock, songs about the harsh life, love and rain.
Tony Joe is someone who has infinitely more blues feeling than many so-called blues artists have. That's precisely the reason why we are having this exclusive interview for you, about his new CD, about some special moments in his career and about himself….
Sticking exactly to the appointment, I call Tony Joe on a sunny summer afternoon at his place in Franklin, Tennessee. Over there it is nine o'clock in the morning. It is the charming man himself who asks the first question. He wants to know precisely where I live in Belgium. Since I cannot -obviously- tell him anything sensible about Ruddervoorde, I simply mention that I live in the neighbourhood of Brugge. It was in Brugge that he performed as "top of the bill" on the Cactusfestival. And yes he still remembers Brugge! Oh yeah, I remember that cute little town. It's definitely one of the most beautiful places out there! Especially the water was so beautiful. And all the houses in the centre with their pretty back-porches that led to the water. Those wonderful back-porches huh…". A back-porch on the water. I feel him fantasise his guitar along with it. Typical Tony Joe White…
Your new CD "The Beginning" really sounds like you deliberately wanted to return to your musical roots and to the beginning of your career.
Yeah man! I grew up with the blues, you know. People like Hopkins and John Lee Hooker. For a very long time I've wanted to record this acoustic album, with only my voice, guitar, mouth organ and my foot as drums. On top of that, more and more people, throughout the years, have asked for such an album. Finally I succeeded. It reminded me of the beginning of my career. Late in the '60's I played in clubs in Tennessee. Although I performed solo, people came to these clubs to dance. Sometimes it could become pretty wild. It never bothered me. I just played my guitar and the people twisted their way on the dance floor like alligators…
Recently I listened to a registration of the concert you gave on the Texas Pop festival in 1969. You performed along with Sam & Dave (amongst others), but also solo, just like now. Paying close attention to your turbulent guitar solo in " Roosevelt & Ira Lee" I've noticed that you've become soberer throughout the years, although the intensity of the music has remained identical…
Is there a registration of that concert? I wasn't aware of that… but I do remember that festival. As far as the music is concerned I think you are right. When I was a young fellow I always tried to give the longest possible solo performance, but by now I know much better: "less is best". I've never been a guitar-tyrant, but now I've definitively chosen for the soul-interpretation. It could well be that the guitar playing sounds very simple now, but do you know how difficult it is to get exactly that simple sound in a studio? You are easily tempted to play too much. Later, when you listen calmly to the recording, you realise very quickly that you will have to remaster certain fragments, or cut them away if you really are striving for that simplicity. When Tina Turner recorded "Foreign Affair", which contains four songs written by me, she asked me to play the guitar to these songs. She wanted to copy the sound of the demo-tape as much as possible. That demo was as simple as anything, very rudimentary: only myself, bass, drums and B3-organ. Even Tina Turner was convinced during that period that it would sound better if the sound was kept simple…
In one of the tracks of your new CD, namely "Rebellion", you phrase in plain terms that you are not willing to adapt to the commercial circus and that you will only play the guitar the way you like it. At the end of the song you whisper: "Lightnin' Hopkins was a friend of mine". Although it is true that you have known him, did you ever have the opportunity to play music together with him?
Certainly yes, and the existence of a recording proves this. At the end of the 1960's he produced the album "L.A. Mudslide" I was invited to that session and I was even given the opportunity to play electrical guitar and some mouth organ on most songs. During the mixing I have been put somewhere to the background, but still clearly recognisable. Lightnin' treated me really well, man! I've admired him since I was twelve years old and I knew most of his licks. Back then I was twenty-five. He said to me: "Hey boy, you're playing just like me". Yeah! I had just signed a contract at Monument Records at that time and they had arranged this meeting in Los Angeles for me since they knew he was one of my heroes. I remember clearly how he entered the studio, accompanied by his wife. He was carrying a kind of paper bag, in which a bottle of wine was packed. He entered, walked towards me looked at my guitar and asked: "Are you gonna play with me?" To which I answered "yep". "Alright, alright" he said while he sat down, grabbed his guitar and opened the bottle of wine. Next he asked the technicians to set up a recorder for me. And the first thing I knew is that we were on our way. He played twelve or fourteen songs in a row. It lasted only 45 minutes. He stood up, shook my hand and walked outside. These people gave him ten notes of hundred dollars. That was it: thousand dollars, no paperwork, no royalties, nothing! He and his wife left murmuring "see you later". He also kept it really simple…
I would like to avoid clichés as much as possible, but since Elvis Presley was (and still is) one of my favourite performers, I am very curious to how you felt when he covered your songs…
Well, when I started, I roamed all the clubs in Tennessee and I played a lot of material of Elvis, Lightnin' Hopkins and John Lee Hooker myself. And since I admired Elvis, I combed my hair exactly like he did and I grew muttonchops. But I could also sing precisely like Elvis sung. During years I had at least fifteen of his songs in my repertoire. When, years later, he recorded "Polk Salad Annie", it really shook me, man. The musical force of a circle that became perfectly round, do you understand? Elvis invited my wife and me to Las Vegas when he was to record the song there live. We spend some three days together and he was really good for us. He said that "Polk Salad Annie' felt as if he had written it himself. And you know he sung it precisely like that. He really put his heart into that song when he sung it. The way it made me feel then is indescribable. When someone you admire for years covers one of your songs, that is big! Very big!
Some of your songs have a deep blues touch. On the new CD "Rich Woman Blues" and "Saturday Night In Oak Grove Louisiana" are good examples of this. Although you have never presented yourself as a blues artist I personally find that you have more blues feeling than certain young white so called blues artists. Does it feel like that to you as well?
Yeah, well, eh… I believe that, look, those young fellows copy too much of the old stuff. "I woke up this morning, tadah tadah", you see? But a blues' feeling is something different for me. A good example is the song" The Beach Life" that I recorded some two years ago. It is a fast uptempo rock song, but when you pay attention to the text, you know it is a blues song. Blues is a feeling, man. You can even sing country with that blues feeling.
In 1980 you went even further. On the album "The Real Thang" you have mixed blues with disco in the song "Disco Blues". The people devoted to blues considered it impossible to melt these two styles together, but in the magical brain of Tony Joe White everything is possible…
Oh man, I swear to you, everything is possible in swamp music. And by the way, I was telling the truth in that song. I was really having the disco blues! I was fed up with disco. It gave me a burned-out feeling, you understand? It really depressed me. But it did give rise to a good song. I still like it a lot, just like some of the other songs on that album. The public has overlooked "The Real Thang" but it does contain several good songs.
Typical for the music of Tony Joe White are the figures he puts down, personalities that come alive through his music. He sings about day to day affairs of every man and he writes his texts amazingly well so that the children of his brain seem familiar, "Polk Salad Annie" being a perfect example of this. Is the fantasy of Tony Joe White endless? Or does he live with open eyes and ears? In every album one can encounter a village-lunatic, a poor fellow, a lonely soul or a skunk. It's not different on the new CD. In "Clovis Green" he tells the story of a farmer's family from New Orleans who want the best for their seventeen-year-old daughter. They send Angelie to the best boarding school, so that she will not only have the best possible for the present but also for the future. In the spring already, Angelie writes to her parents that she is coming home, all the dreams have shattered, and she is pregnant…
"A child was born in the fall
But no one ever mentioned the father
But when all the neighbors came to call
They would say he looked just like his mother"
And there is "Ice Cream Man", a song in which Tony Joe describes very vividly a lady who should be handled with care. And whose libido surpasses largely the average…
"She's a cover pulling mama
But I don't mind her in my bed
Got the fireplace going
And the firewood in the shed
She got a nice warm body
Sweet dreams in her head
Sometimes she's a little girl
Licking on an ice cream cone
But She can be a man handler
You know the woman is strong
She can play all day
Ride the gator all night long"
Who are those figures from your songs? I would like to meet the lady from your "Ice Cream Man" (Tony Joe laughs amply) and the way you describe Clovis Green's daughter is brilliant. Do you encounter these people in your day to day life or are they born in your head?
Well, …eh (Still laughs) I have known Clovis. I just change the names of the people involved, but I have met these people in Louisiana and this story is true. And "Ice Cream Man", well … that song is about my own wife… Most of the people that I sing about really exist. I simply change some details here and there. You see, I picture Clovis on an estate, working his bud off to give his child the education she deserves. Those images just appear to me. I am not a songwriter who really settles down, thinks carefully and then writes a song on paper. My songs just come to me spontaneously. It often happens that I am simply playing my guitar when a tune comes to me, or a story that I can sing about. If I happen to have a piece of paper at hand I write down a few lines at the most. For example a good title for a song. The best part however remains in my head. All songs start from my guitar and that is something I closely pay attention to.
Is there a special reason why your new CD is only available through your website? Why isn't there a larger distribution?
Oh, that is a matter of circumstances. We have worked hard to get the website operational and the new CD is a perfect means to promote the website. On top of that I wanted to leave the record companies. I recorded this album here at my place and I wanted to reach the public directly, without detours or agents. And we are having results. It works! And yet I do have some contacts with the German label Audium Records. They are interested in distributing the album worldwide. I would like to continue the way we have been going so far with the website, but that label could make the album accessible over an even larger territory. I am especially considering my fans in Australia, Europe and Japan. However it is already very easy to obtain the album, even if it takes about a week before the album is delivered in Europe. A simple visit to www.tonyjoewhite.net is sufficient. Everyone can order the CD right now or wait until it becomes available in the stores, probably by the end of October. It is the first completely acoustic album that I have ever made and I am convinced that those who love my music will love the CD.
It truly is a very strong album.
Yeah man, and do you know why? It is because she was recorded at my place, in my "home studio". I live in an old country house with high ceilings and wooden floors. It gives character as well as pitch. I left my guitar and the microphones unplugged and when I felt like it, I came in to sing and play. This way several weeks could pass before I picked up the guitar again. It was a lazy, easy way of recording an album, considering that it took me all together some six months. There was no record company that gave me a deadline or so. It was such fun!
"When my guitar gives me a new song,
I only think of the people who have loved my music for so many years.
Those people are the only ones that I am interested in."
Now, something else. Browsing through your records I found a spectacular version of Slim
Harpo's "Scratch My Back". You recorded it in 1968. The mouth organ sounds blues', part of the
guitar-work sounds country and the solo is funk. All these different styles in one and the
same song is very typical for your music. Is this a sound that you have created consciously?
No, it was very unconscious (roars with laughter!). It's all right with me when people find it brilliant, or whatever, but I never reflected upon it myself. I just play my guitar, and what comes out of it, comes out of it. And that is it. But I still remember that song. During that period I played in a club in Texas. Right then I heard Slim Harpo and I thought "Oh God". So I learned to play that song, especially since people in that club were asking for it. In the end I also recorded "Scratch My Back" and … the way it turned out was just the way it turned out …
We have already discussed the personalities of your characters in your songs, but I would like to talk about you, yourself. The song "Rebellion" from your new CD explains a lot, but the album sleeve of "Home Made Ice Cream" from 1973 is also typical. In those days everyone was doing their utmost best to produce sleeves with a beautiful lay-out, and you just casually write all the information on a slip of paper and then request explicitly from your record company that they print your handwriting on the sleeve. Those small details say a lot about you. We know that several very famous artists consider you a superstar. But when I listen to your music I still hear an honest rebellion from the South, who gives nothing about etiquette, protocols or any of the other sophisticated affairs in life. Am I right?
Yeah! You're right! It's something like… eh… Look, for me music has nothing to do with hit lists or airplay on the radio. When my guitar gives me a new song, I only think of the people who have loved my music for so many years. And these people are the only people I am interested in, do you understand? I do think that it is important for the people who love my music that they experience each time again that I am doing my utmost best. That's it. I do not want to see my music cornered simply because it would fit the newest radio-trend. I am very happy if I can continue to play, go horseback riding and fishing at times as well as playing some golf. This way life is good enough…
Yet, with your status as an artist you could become filthy rich, do you know that?
Yes, I am aware of that. But what I have enjoyed the most throughout the years is the freedom I've had to suit myself in all my doings. I've never agreed to go along with a record company that promised a lot of money if I would make the music that they wanted. If I don't want to do something I will not do it. For me that has always been the most comfortable position. I have always been able to play from the heart and the soul and I am grateful that my music has always kept me from financial problems.
Have you got any idea why you are more popular in Europe than in the States?
Did you know that I scored my first hit in Paris? That was in 1968 with "Soul Fransisco". It all started in Europe. After the French release of the single it also became a hit in Belgium, Germany and the Netherlands. "Polk Salad Annie" came a little while after that first hit and not the other way round. I have always been convinced that European radio stations have more freedom than here. At the moment I do have many fans in America, but the record stores must import my records from Paris. I think that Europeans, once they hook onto a certain kind of music that they consider this music as an art. Here in America they have "too many flavours of the week". Over here, radio-stations will only play what has been requested to play by someone, or what has been paid heavily for to play. On top of that many stations depend on their mother-station. A megastation in Los Angeles may have as many as four hundred stations under their umbrella. All of them receive playlists to which they must stick, if they want to remain part of the mother concern and receive their financial support. A positive development is a new, alternative, station that started recently from Taos, New Mexico. They work with solar-power and only broadcast the music that they like. On top of that they are also on Internet, so that you can locate them and listen to them all over the world. The name of this station is KTAO. They broadcast, amongst others, the new album of John Mayall, "Yo Yo Man", a song that I have written by the way, and they play ZZ Top and…, yes, well everybody. This is really great, man!>BR> (to be reached through:www.ktao.com
What are the projects that you wish to realise at short term?
Well, to start with there will be a second part to the acoustic album. When I finished recording the first album I had twenty songs, of which only the first eleven ended up on "The Beginning". So this album will have a follow-up. Next I have produced, in the past five years, here in my home studio quite some demos with my drummer and bassist. Those recordings are still very raw, but I am considering mixing them and then releasing them. That album will be entitled "Fillin' Snaky". The music is very rough and cannot be compared with "The Beginning". "Get it rollin", do you understand? That album could be compared with the sound of the album "Continued" from the beginning of my career. Very rudimentary.
Do you have any special wishes or dreams that you would like to realise with your music?
My biggest dream is that the music that I've worked on for years, and everything that I've recorded, eventually reaches those people who would like to own it. I always find it disturbing when people write to me that they cannot find a particular album. That's why I hope that, through my website or through Audium Records, or whatever, eventually my stuff reaches the people that truly care. And of course I hope to be able to continue to write songs.
At this moment the part "interview' gradually extinguishes and we continue to chat a little. Tony Joe would like to know when the blues festival takes place in Brugge. I regret deeply not to be able to say anything positive about that. The swampman continues to sharpen his ties with our country and mentions his special friendship with the deceased Luke Walter Jr. of Blue Blot. The two were continuously in contact with each other and Tony Joe was even Luke's witness at his marriage in America…
Of course it was not the intention to give a complete overview of the career of Tony Joe White. This article is only a snapshot that attempts to picture the blues feeling of this great artist. Attentive readers will have noticed, without doubt, that this interview is not crammed with data and facts, even though several prestigious projects do exist. For example in 1973 Tony Joe contributed to the soundtrack of the movie "Catch My Soul", a movie in which he also acted. In 1979 he played guitar and mouth organ on an album of Joe Dassin who recorded several French versions of White successes. In 1985 Tony Joe wrote the book "Buck & Don - Stories From The Swamp", aiming at children of ages ten to twelve. In 1993 Jean-Louis Lamaison made a 52-minute TV-documentary about Tony Joe. And I haven't even mentioned the youngest of seven children raised at a cotton-picking peasant-family near Oak Grove Louisiana, just west of the Mississippi-river. It was a land of cotton-fields, where the "polk salad' grew in the wild and alligators dwelled in the swamps which were covered by moss. However the boy was hooked on baseball, until his older brother Charles came home with a record of Lightnin' Hopkins….
For the complete story, including a hyper-complete discography and an overview of all Tony Joe White songs that have been covered by other artists, I would like to direct you to the website of the German Martin Doppelbauer. This is the most complete and up-to-date reference on Tony Joe White that I am aware of. You can reach it by surfing to: http://home.t-online.de/home/Martin.Doppelbauer/main.htm
Back to the Roots (Belgium magazine)
September 2001
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